Does Eldritch Smite After You Know the Roll
2020-03-15,03:06 PM (ISO 8601) - Elevation - End - #one
Bugbear in the Playground
Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is improve?
As the title says, which is more effective; Divine Smite or Eldritch Smite?Divine Smite has a cap, Eldritch does non. Paladins go more than slots of varying level, Warlocks practice not.
What do you think?
"There are truly only 2 sources of disharmonize: Miscommunication, and Intolerance. Of the two, only one is acceptable."
2020-03-15,03:10 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - Terminate - #2
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is meliorate?
Six of one, half dozen of the other.I think Eldritch Smite can exist done at range, so there is that.
2020-03-15,03:17 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - Finish - #three
Dwarf in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is improve?
What DM is giving you one-half a dozen spell slots every bit a Warlock and how tin can I play in their game?
Originally Posted past ImproperJustice
Half dozen of one, vi of the other.
2020-03-15,03:21 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #4
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
XD I think he means over the course of the standard adventuring solar day, implying short rests. Planes Above a Warlock with 6 spell slots would be wildly fun though, if somewhat gamebreaking.
What DM is giving yous half a dozen spell slots equally a Warlock and how can I play in their game?
"There are truly simply 2 sources of conflict: Miscommunication, and Intolerance. Of the two, only one is acceptable."
2020-03-xv,03:26 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - Finish - #5
Orc in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Eldritch Smite seems a fleck stronger on newspaper, especially because it can knock virtually enemies decumbent, which is an undervalued benefit in combat. Nonetheless, Warlock slots are more limited than Paladin smites, so it�s a trade-off
Last edited past Sam113097; 2020-03-15 at 04:09 PM.
2020-03-15,03:32 PM (ISO 8601) - Summit - Finish - #six
Orc in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is ameliorate?
Divine Smite is ameliorate because the opportunity price for Warlocks is higher imo.
2020-03-15,03:58 PM (ISO 8601) - Height - End - #7
Barbarian in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Divine Smite is improve because it is open to multi-class shenanigans while Eldritch Smite is non.If a Paladin wants a agglomeration more than smites, he becomes a bard or a wizard or a cleric or a sorcerer or a druid.
If a Warlock wants a agglomeration more smites, he becomes an 11th and 17th level warlock.
For a character with polearm chief, great weapon master, sentinel, multi-classed Berserker Barbarian, two weapon fighting, or other tricks to become an actress attack out in a round, the Warlock will need to striking warlock level 11 to pull out a full round of hits with smite. Your ability to nova is hard capped with Eldritch Smite. Not so with Divine Smite, where you tin punctuate every hitting in a round with extra damage.
Compared to a straight Paladin, Eldritch Smite is probably better; a faster smite damage progression makes up for having fewer smites available in a round. Only with multi-classing Divine Smite smokes it.
2020-03-15,04:08 PM (ISO 8601) - Height - End - #8
Ogre in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
The issue with eldritch smite is that you would probably yet exist meliorate off just using eldritch nail.It tin can exist used with a ranged weapon if it matters.
I never saw the appeal of weapon based warlocks, you are investing a lot to just exist average.
Final edited by Misterwhisper; 2020-03-15 at 08:17 PM.
2020-03-fifteen,07:30 PM (ISO 8601) - Pinnacle - End - #9
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is ameliorate?
I'1000 currently playing an 18th level BladeLock with a Rod of the Pact Keeper and a Ring of Spell Storing, so it's about like having half-dozen spell slots. Sadly, while the ring can store a 5th level warlock spell, it doesn't technically count as a warlock spell slot, then I can only use Eldritch Smite five times. And I have to spend an action to recover a spell slot for the 5th one using the rod.
What DM is giving you half a dozen spell slots every bit a Warlock and how can I play in their game?
I remember I prefer Eldritch Smite to Divine Smite. Information technology progresses faster; I had all my die (6d8) at 9th level. I like having the selection of smiting at range. (Upward to 600 feet away with a longbow pact weapon.) My melee-oriented allies savour ganging up on the target later I knock them prone with no relieve. Also, in many cases forcefulness damage is preferable to radiant damage. (I have spells for radiant damage if I demand information technology.)
Last edited by JakOfAllTirades; 2020-03-15 at 07:37 PM.
I Can EXPLAIN It FOR YOU, Just I Tin'T Sympathize IT FOR YOU.
2020-03-15,08:31 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #10
Firbolg in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
It solves the problem that Paladins run across when wanting to bandage a lot of spells.
I never saw the appeal of weapon based warlocks, you lot are investing a lot to just be average.
A Hexblade is optimized to do both when a Paladin isn't. The problem is, players only come across the Hexblade every bit a weapon attacker instead of a hybrid.
It'd exist like looking at the Moon Druid and bold it's only a melee combatant. You are still a fully competent magic caster.
Optimizing a Warlock for just spellcasting doesn't actually accept much of a difference than but doing something else. What else would you have spent your invocation or patron on that would have significantly added options for spending your spell slots?
Final edited by Man_Over_Game; 2020-03-15 at 09:53 PM.
2020-03-15,10:42 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #11
Barbarian in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is improve?
its...an expression that means 'they're the same thing'.
XD I think he means over the course of the standard adventuring day, implying short rests. Planes Higher up a Warlock with half dozen spell slots would be wildly fun though, if somewhat gamebreaking.
as in eldritch smite and divine smite, neither is improve.
for the OP: its important to note, eldritch smite automatically knocks someone prone, and then it has utility exterior of damage. the trade off is that per spell slot, divine smite actually hurts more.
overall i concur with MoG, if there is a difference between them in terms of effectiveness its marginal at best.
edit: should clarify, divine smite may injure more, merely paladin levels calibration slower. and then its kind of a launder even there.
Final edited by kazaryu; 2020-03-fifteen at 10:44 PM.
2020-03-15,11:00 PM (ISO 8601) - Elevation - End - #12
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Thank you.
its...an expression that ways 'they're the same thing'.
as in eldritch smite and divine smite, neither is better.
for the OP: its important to annotation, eldritch smite automatically knocks someone prone, so it has utility outside of damage. the trade off is that per spell slot, divine smite actually hurts more.
overall i agree with MoG, if at that place is a difference between them in terms of effectiveness its marginal at all-time.
edit: should clarify, divine smite may hurt more, but paladin levels scale slower. and so its kind of a wash even there.
Sorry. Where I alive: 6 of 1, half dozen of the other is a common expression for pregnant the same thing or shut to it.They both achieve a similar consequence with some minor differences. So I call up a PC can relish either.
On an unrelated note, anyone find the Nameless King has returned? Maybe he is from the States and in quarantine with the rest of is and has more time on his hands.
2020-03-15,11:27 PM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #13
Ogre in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
He is from Brazil.
Thank you.
Pitiful. Where I alive: half dozen of one, half dozen of the other is a common expression for meaning the same thing or close to it.They both achieve a similar event with some minor differences. So I remember a PC can enjoy either.
On an unrelated note, anyone notice the Nameless King has returned? Maybe he is from usa and in quarantine with the residuum of is and has more than time on his hands.
2020-03-16,01:25 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #14
Ogre in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
I've ran a couple games where everyone got to cull iii spells (2nd, 1st, and 1st level) that was cast at-will.
What DM is giving you one-half a dozen spell slots every bit a Warlock and how tin I play in their game?
Nosotros used... I think the rogue and sorcerer as the base classes. No Spellcasting feature allowed.
A lot of fun. Basically, information technology was like X-Men D&D.
2020-03-xvi,01:49 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Finish - #15
Banned
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is amend?
Makes hexblade or pact v/wizard 15 look really awesome. Y'all do lose access to ninth level spells though, which for actually good players is a no get. 9th level spells are game breaking when they finally bear witness upwardly though. And so this would be a DM friendly build.
2020-03-xvi,02:28 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #sixteen
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is amend?
I just want to indicate out that Eldritch Smite isn't good for dumping a massive Nova. It explicitly limits you lot to one smite per plough, regardless of your number of attacks, so even if you wanted to dump all two-iv spell slots in one turn yous can't do it with Eldritch smites.
2020-03-16,02:53 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Finish - #17
Banned
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is improve?
Loading everything up on one guaranteed hitting and guaranteed critical is something a wizard tin do. Simply that is a good point, Galithar.
Last edited by col_impact; 2020-03-sixteen at 02:55 AM.
2020-03-xvi,05:34 AM (ISO 8601) - Meridian - Stop - #18
Ettin in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Skipping all other posts, considering in my honest opinion, Divine Smite is a lot better, as it can be used with any spell slot, not merely with paladin spell slots or, every bit in the case of Eldritch Smite, warlock spell slots only.
My Homebrew:
Don't await for an insult when there is none.
Words actually mean things, people!
Ongoing game & character:
Sigurd Eilifsson, Ulfen Barbarian 3/Bard 2/Dragon Disciple 8 (2d Darkness; Pathfinder Chronicles Entrada (D&D 3.5)
2020-03-16,05:42 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #19
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is meliorate?
If you ignore all the arguments that Eldritch Smite can exist delivered at Range, does more than damage (except against undead where it'south equal), and knocks the target decumbent with no save. Besides as dealing force damage which is situationally superior. More things resist radiant damage than force.
Skipping all other posts, considering in my honest opinion, Divine Smite is a lot better, as it can be used with any spell slot, non just with paladin spell slots or, equally in the case of Eldritch Smite, warlock spell slots just.
It's not better simply because information technology's spammable. It has it's ain limitations and for the most part the abilities are pretty equal.
In a single grade game your Warlock will exist smiting a lot harder, but less oftentimes so a Paladin for the majority of the game (from 5th level to 13th level). In Multiclass the Paladin still hits slightly lower in the commencement, but catches up significantly faster.
2020-03-16,06:32 AM (ISO 8601) - Elevation - End - #xx
Ettin in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Decumbent condition is a joke in 5th edition. Continuing up from prone is not a large issue, every bit it doesn't even provoke opportunity attacks (as information technology used to in previous editions).
If y'all ignore all the arguments that Eldritch Smite can be delivered at Range, does more than harm (except against undead where information technology's equal), and knocks the target prone with no save. Besides as dealing strength damage which is situationally superior. More things resist radiant damage than force.
It'south not meliorate only considering it's spammable. Information technology has it'southward own limitations and for the nigh part the abilities are pretty equal.
In a unmarried form game your Warlock will be smiting a lot harder, but less often so a Paladin for the bulk of the game (from 5th level to 13th level). In Multiclass the Paladin still hits slightly lower in the beginning, simply catches upwards significantly faster.
That you tin can make Eldritch Smite from range is certainly a benefaction over Divine Smite, but the limitation on how often you can do it compared to Divine Smite is nevertheless a huge drawback.While true that very few things resist Force damage, the difference between Forcefulness and Radiant is very small-scale. I can't recall the exact numbers, but it's non a huge gap.
FWIW, I already said it's just my opinion, and I don't have whatsoever obligation to change it just because someone else might disagree, now do I?
Last edited past Arkhios; 2020-03-sixteen at 07:36 AM.
My Homebrew:
Don't expect for an insult when in that location is none.
Words actually hateful things, people!
Ongoing game & character:
Sigurd Eilifsson, Ulfen Barbarian 3/Bard ii/Dragon Disciple 8 (Second Darkness; Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign (D&D 3.5)
2020-03-16,07:09 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Terminate - #21
Troll in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
ES is better in terms of what it does as an individual Smite can utilise to ranged attacks and applies the prone condition.Whether information technology�southward better to be a Paladin or a Warlock, in terms of their respective Smites, is going to be based on what your adventuring days are like, level yous�ll be attaining, and whether Undead/Fiends are a mutual enemy in the entrada.
Personally, I�d say Paladins are the way to go if you want to Smite, in general. To utilise ES, you need to select PotB, and select both Thirsting Blade and ES as invocations, and it nevertheless costs you a spell slot. That build volition be able to driblet heavier Smites on enemies before than an equal level Paladin, however, the Paladin is still able to do everything else a Paladin can practice, while the Warlock put all their character build options into Smiting.
As the characters gain levels, the Paladin wins out as they�ll take more slots to drop more Smites (and multiple Smites per plow), while the Warlock will start existence suboptimal in terms of their attacks if going Weapon attacks over EB, at level eleven, depending on gear.
The Warlock must choose to do weapon attacks over EB or casting a 5th level+ spell: Synaptic Static will be much more effective in any combat with multiple enemies.
The Warlock must choose to keep weapon attacking, foregoing meliorate deportment, while hoping for a crit, while the Paladin is more often than not using the assault action every turn anyhow, so tin Smite and have advantage on any crit they scroll.
The fact that ES can exist used on ranged weapons is kind of moot, in my opinion as being a ranged weapon using Warlock is spitting in the middle of the best ranged course in 5e: EB with AB and Repelling Blast, Lance of Sluggishness, Eldritch Spear, etc. is the best ranged build in the game, and all the same gets all its casting on top of at will control actions. Trading that for ultimately less attacks per round and using a slot to Smite, is a bad merchandise off.
2020-03-16,07:21 AM (ISO 8601) - Peak - End - #22
Titan in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is amend?
Certain, it'south like shooting fish in a barrel to recover from the Prone condition, but it nonetheless lasts at least until the target'due south adjacent turn. And don't forget that information technology also knocks flyers to the basis, which can be a huge deal, specially when you can practice it at range.
2020-03-16,07:43 AM (ISO 8601) - Meridian - End - #23
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
You drastically underestimate the prone condition. Which is fine. Some people play in games where all encounters take place in a thirty'*30' all indoor ceilings at 10' campaign. They think flying is overrated and useless.
Prone condition is a joke in fifth edition. Standing up from prone is not a big event, as information technology doesn't even provoke opportunity attacks (as information technology used to in previous editions).
That you lot tin make Eldritch Smite from range is certainly a boon over Divine Smite, but the limitation on how often you tin do it compared to Divine Smite is however a huge drawback.While true that very few things resist Forcefulness damage, the difference betwixt Force and Radiant is very small. I can't retrieve the exact numbers, but it'south not a huge gap.
Prone is not a status to scoff at. Knock someone with a 30 human foot movement speed decumbent and have your trunk drop spirit Guardians on them.
Their speed is halved by the spirit Guardians. They at present have xv anxiety. They stand up up using half of that. They have 7.5 remaining. They tin move a single square without using their Action to dash meaning they are stuck in the Spirit Guardians.Knock someone decumbent, have your Paladin buddy walk up and roll 2 or 3 attacks at advantage. Who cares if he stands up next turn, he probably won't live that long
Knock someone prone to requite your Monk reward on landing his stunning strikes. Then once stunned and auto failing strength and Dex checks have your fighter grapple him with 0 fail chance to keep him at that place. (The Monk is not necessary. The knocking prone is actually to salve your fighter buddy using an attack to shove when you get to do it as part of the set on)
Smite that Adult dragon out of the sky for 20d6 falling damage.
It's got a LOT of uses if you but expect for them.
I only use Eldritch Smite on criticals or when the decumbent condition is valuable. So each smite for me is worth 12d8 damage. Sure a Paladin can expect for crits too, but so they'll have a lot of left over smites (unless they are super lucky and/or have a super long adventuring day.)
2020-03-16,09:12 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Terminate - #24
Firbolg in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
I think it was intended to be a jab at the fact that you lot basically said "Nobody else'due south opinion matters, considering here are the facts".
FWIW, I already said it'due south simply my opinion, and I don't have any obligation to change it just because someone else might disagree, now do I?
Merely when provided with a counterargument with other "facts", you say "Nah, non gonna listen to you". Was anything we said going to matter?
MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the corporeality of ideas I�ve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. You�re a jewel of the community here.
5th Edition Homebrewery
Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to set up bosses/Short Residual Classes.Pain, using Exhaustion to brand tactical martial combatants.
Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!
2020-03-16,09:30 AM (ISO 8601) - Tiptop - Terminate - #25
Ettin in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Only, the fact is, I didn't say that. Don't make assumptions of intent. I meant what I said, "in my honest opinion".
the fact that y'all basically said "Nobody else's stance matters, because here are the facts".
I skipped other posts, because this whole thing is solely about opinion. There'due south no right or wrong reply to this question.
I gave mine. That's all.
Concluding edited by Arkhios; 2020-03-xvi at 09:33 AM.
2020-03-16,09:52 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #26
Halfling in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is amend?
They are both limited in there own means.Divine Smite:
Starting at second level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you tin can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target,
in add-on to the weapon's damage. The extra damage is 2d8 for a 1st-level spell slot, plus 1d8 for each spell level higher than 1st, to a maximum of 5d8.
The harm increases by 1d8 if the target is an undead or a fiend, to a maximum of 6d8.Eldritch Smite:
Prerequisites: 5th level, Pact of the Blade. Once per turn when you hit a animate being with your pact weapon,
you can expend a warlock spell slot to deal an extra 1d8 force damage to the target, plus some other 1d8 per level of the spell slot,
and y'all tin knock the target prone if information technology is Huge or smaller.For Divine Smite information technology is maxed out at fifth level spell on an undead or fiend which is 6D8 merely a 6th level spell for others again 6D8 on crit dmg y'all're e'er going to do 12D8 at these levels, Also you tin can easily multiclass into sorc for those higher spell slots.
For Eldritch Smite it is maxed out at 5th level spell no matter what y'all exercise so max is 5D8 and crit of 10D8 and you can't employ other spell slots because it specifies warlock spell slot must be used
If we're going off of pure dmg divine smite outputs way more it's that elementary but for overcoming resistances eldritch smite is better considering hardly anything is resistant or immune to force dmg
For me i'one thousand going to cull divine smite considering I can use it at 1st - 6th level which can effectively be used a maximum of 18 times at 20th level 2 pal / 18 sorc
for eldritch smite I can only use information technology 5 times and that's it
2020-03-16,10:35 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - End - #27
Ogre in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Divine Smite:
Pros:
- Spell Slot Agnostic
- Scaleable (Choose your slot level)
- Can spam (2+ a turn)
- Can Nova (All your dailies in a go)
- Stops Undead Fortitude, Vampire Regeneration
Cons:
Eldritch Smite:
- Melee Just
- Lower damage cap (unless against unholy)
- Radiant < Forcefulness {marginal}
- You have to exist a Paladin
Pros:
- Fast Peak when unmarried-classed
- Tin can go ranged
- No save prone
- Force Damage
- You become to be a Warlock
Cons:
- Pact Slots But - not multiclass friendly
- No scaling (Ever full power)
- No Spam (one / Plough)
- Enforced Rationing (limit 2/three/4 per rest)
Overall, it'due south kind of a wash - it depends on what you lot want to do.
Overall, Eldritch is more teamwork focused: it provides straight improvements to other's efforts. The primary differential - Eldritch being usable ranged - actually suffers from being successful due to proning. Divine is more than champion focused - yous are going to be the one to make the kill in a big fat (radiant) blaze of glory.
Why yes, Warlock is my solution for everything.
Agile Abilities are swell because you lot - the thespian - are demonstrating your Dwarvenness or Elfishness. You're not passively a dwarf, y'all're actively dwarfing your manner through obstacles.
2020-03-16,10:53 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Finish - #28
Troll in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Really, it�s 6d8 max: 1d8+1d8 per spell level, so 2d8 for a 1st level slot, 3d8 for a 2nd, etc.
For Eldritch Smite it is maxed out at fifth level spell no matter what yous practice so max is 5D8 and crit of 10D8 and you can't use other spell slots because information technology specifies warlock spell slot must be used
Edit: as well, this statement is misleading:
As you�re comparing spell slots, not when each course gets access to those spell slots.
If we're going off of pure dmg divine smite outputs style more it'south that simple but for overcoming resistances eldritch smite is amend because hardly anything is resistant or allowed to strength dmg
A 5th level Paladin has second level slots (3d8 Smites) max, compared to a fifth level Warlock having 3rd level slots (4d8 Smites). At ninth, the Pally has third level (4d8) the Warlock 5th (6d8). So at comparable form levels, the Warlock Smites will out harm the Paladin Smites, until each are level 17.
Final edited past RSP; 2020-03-sixteen at 11:01 AM.
2020-03-sixteen,eleven:07 AM (ISO 8601) - Top - Stop - #29
Barbarian in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Yeah, but you need to invest a lot of invocations to make melee warlock piece of work, which are extremely competitive at low levels.
Information technology solves the trouble that Paladins encounter when wanting to cast a lot of spells.
A Hexblade is optimized to do both when a Paladin isn't. The problem is, players simply run across the Hexblade as a weapon attacker instead of a hybrid.
It'd exist like looking at the Moon Druid and assuming it's only a melee combatant. You lot are even so a fully competent magic caster.
Optimizing a Warlock for just spellcasting doesn't really have much of a divergence than but doing something else. What else would you have spent your invocation or patron on that would have significantly added options for spending your spell slots?
2020-03-sixteen,11:29 AM (ISO 8601) - Meridian - End - #30
Bugbear in the Playground
Re: Divine or Eldritch Smite: Which is better?
Non actually. If you're smiting occasionally for effect, and not making a pure Bladelock yous really but need one (two if ranged and you oasis't nfound a magical ranged weapon). The others enhance, it brand melee more appealing.
Yeah, but you demand to invest a lot of invocations to make melee warlock work, which are extremely competitive at low levels.
At level five I would tell a Warlock that wants to smite (just not a dedicated weapon attack bladelock) to continue East. blasting for their at-will impairment. Attack in melee when you plan to smite only. One time you go a ranged magical weapon go far your pact weapon and use it for ranged smites when needed. A Paladin volition use most of its spell slots on smites. A smite for a Warlock is but 1 more selection they tin can utilize their extremely limited slots on.
Which I suppose doesn't actually counter y'all saying that information technology takes high investment to make a melee warlock work. Just that a Warlock tin can make employ of Eldritch Smite with only the invocation required to do it and no farther investment. Which personally is how I recommend doing information technology. A Blade lock GWM PAM at high levels dealing 2d10+1d4+60 is pretty nasty though. Just not actually more so then the Barbaric doing 2d10+1d4+54 for far less investment (just the feats, no boosted class or character resources)
Final edited by Galithar; 2020-03-xvi at 11:30 AM.
Source: https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?608692-Divine-or-Eldritch-Smite-Which-is-better
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